Punisher Kills Marvel Universe
-Battles review by a Punisher fan-
Well first of all i'm a Punisher fan. But i don't consider myself fanboy or anyone who could not face facts.
So i will review the most controversy fights in this "What If..." story.
To begin with i like the Garth Ennis Punisher but this one seems a bit edgy for my taste but this story was very entertaining and funny to read but i think that some character are a bit underated.
For everyone who didn't read this story it's in an alternate world when Frank's family were killed by the superheroes while they were fighting with the Skrull and Brood alien races. His family was just caught in the crossfire...
Punisher vs Cyclops
The Punisher could hand Cyclops in this situation, because Cyclops wouldn't expect that Castle could react this way and if Castle could draw fast enough (which i believe so) he could shot Cyclops.
Castle wins by the element of surprise. I will brand this as Believable.
Right after shooting Cyclops, Castle attacks the other group of superheroes... In this image i see Hawkeye and Jubilee been shot, once again they were suprised by Castle actions. Believable.
Punisher vs Spider-Man and Venom
The only doubt i got in here is with Spider-Man if he could have been knocked out like Venom without a doubt the Punisher could kill him. I think Spidey could react more faster and prevent the Punisher from killing him instead of asking questions. So, for Venom death is Believable and Spider-Man Not Believable.
Punisher vs Hulk
Punisher vs Kingpin
Kingpin's got an incredible strenght but he is human and he is no match for bullets. Believable.
Punisher vs Dr.Doom
This one is a little difficult for me to decide, i can see the Punisher using a magnetic mine to explode Dr.Doom's face but how could he find the real Doom? I can see Doom underestimating Frank and face him by himself so i will brand this one as Believable.
Punisher vs Mutants
First of all Frank got himself a nuke in Latveria when he beat Dr.Doom. I can see him sending an invite for both factions "good" and "bad" mutants they could smell some sort of trap but they always go looking for it. But if this meeting were on the Moon, they should be in some sort of building for them to breathe, i don't believe they were in an open space. So i will go with the logical explanation, they were in an controled environment. Believable.
Punisher vs Wolverine
Frank found Wolverine drinking and wailing for his buddies and friends deaths. I don't know if the "state" drunk affects Wolverine even so i don't believe Frank could handle this guy hand to hand so easily, he is superior in strenght and definetley he couldn't just frying him and go away. To kill Wolverine he would need a Muramasa blade, drowning him, sending him into space without suit or probably throw him into a vulcano. I think Garth should had write this one a little better. By frying Wolverine, sooner his healing factor would kick in and he would be on his feet. Not Believable.
Punisher vs Captain America
This one is a bit controversial too, i'm not a fan of Captain America and Frank got a point by comparing 'Nam with WW2. 'Nam was dirtier. Everyone knows that Frank works alone so i don't believe that Cap would have fall for this cheap trick. Frank stashing the weapon without Cap's notice, yes. Turning his back on Frank definetely not. Not Believable.
Punisher vs Daredevil
Finally the last hero remain... Daredevil. When the Punisher found Daredevil he got himself beaten up. Daredevil is more agile and his inner senses are very sharp he moves like a ninja this battle couldn't have been won by hand to hand combat. Bullets weren't enough to stop him so Frank used his last resort and stab Daredevil. He was definetely surprised or he could avoid this. Believable.
13 Comments
Ciclops - believable - he deserved it ;P
ReplyDeleteSpiderman - not believable - he could like send a spider web to the gun :P
Hulk - ... not so believable - if that was the case Hulk would never be Hulk, first of all everytime he's about to die(Banner) he transforms himself to take all the pain and live has the monster, that's his doom, Bruce doesn't like it, what Frank could have done was put Bruce in a straight jacket then starve him to death in a cell full of pillows XD
King Pin - Believable, straight to the point
Dr Doom - not believable - I mean, exactly if he had underestimated Frank he would have send a droid like he does to everyone, only if he respected him or saw something in him he would have pay him a visit himself, like for example sharing his pain and telling him he was doing the right thing by killing all those people, a bit like the Emperor with Darth Vader, pushing him to the dark side, Dr Doom would die but would know Frank would be much worst then him specially with his nukes
Mutants - very questionable
Wolverine - not believable - first of all Wolverine would hunt Frank instead of the opposite, Wolverine wouldn't start drinking and crying, second, Frank would know Wolverine was coming and would set a trap for him, burning Wolverine doesn't work, he already did that and survived, actually he already did everything, I don't know how would you kill Wolverine... :D
Maybe he could just crucify him for later and leave him for the vultures(Wolverine already did that but survived with the help of Jubilee, no Jubilee or friends, Wolverine would let himself to die)
Cap America - it could be - at least he doesn't have the honor to kill him face to face(which is a negative thing for Frank, but this is a negative story for the Punisher) also Cap should start fighting him while defending some people or heroes(the opposite of Wolverine, Wolverine hunts, Cap defends) I think a knife on the back of Cap would have been more dramatic ;D after Frank pretended to repent to him.
Daredevil - believable :P
I think Doom never thought that an insect like Frank would do any harm to him and face him directly that's why i classified that battle as "Believable". I can see Doom full of pride face the Punisher and try to eliminate him by himself.
ReplyDeleteAbout the Hulk, if you kill the man, you kill the beast, a straight shot to the head and he is done. That's my opinion of course.
You’re not going to be in the best shape when you’re nearly fried by barbed teasers in the water.
ReplyDeleteYour Star Wars comparison with Frank and Doctor Doom is laughable.
The Mutants are some of the dumbest characters I’ve seen, they can’t make up their minds on anything at all. And that’s been going on for years, even to this day.
Wolverine is not un-killable; a Sentinel’s blast was able to burn his skin away and Wolverine is such a douche bag these days.
The Punisher is not about being more dramatic (are you kidding me???), it’s about showing him getting the job done with the best means necessary. A knife doesn’t kill instantly… a bullet to the head does… DUH! And save the honor crap, modern warfare is not about honor (there not Samurai) and what the Punisher says to Cap is far more accurate than saying “Sir, Yes Sir.” Sorry, but the clean cut straight arrow WWII vet from the 1940’s can’t relate to a ruthless vigilante Vietnam vet from the 1970’s. Which makes the Captain Punisher and Rucka’s War Zone completely inaccurate. I’m tired of Cap getting special treatment.
“You haven't been where I've been at all. So who are you to judge?”
Well said Frank and well written Garth Ennis
1290ad
Deleteregarding your comments I can only see you are a fanboy of the punisher, ok:
First of all, my comparison with the Star Wars is metaphorical, Emperor -superevil, Darth Vader - Evil guy with some good in it, Dr Doom - superevil, Frank Castle(in this story) - Evil guy with some good in it, laughable is your interpretation of what I said fanboy, this was just an idea how the story of him getting the nuke would be more interesting, Dr Doom is really evil and he wouldn't be beaten or give up that easily for Frank like that, unless he knew Frank was going to kill almost all of the superheroes with his nuke which is kinda cool to see DR Doom, kinda like The Emperor, preferring to die for the evil in Frank which is bigger then his(Like the Emperor wanted to do with Vader) then to live and never being able to destroy his own enemies because is not so strong to do it as Frank.
Second, Dr doom doesn't face is more serious enemies in person why would he face Frank Castle? if underestimates him he's going to send a robot/droid in his place like he does to everybody else, if he would respect him he would do the same, in fact now one really knows where the real Dr Doom is... so it should have been played a little bit better, but it's believable that he has a tool to differentiate the real person from the droids.
"The Mutants are some of the dumbest characters I’ve seen, they can’t make up their minds on anything at all. And that’s been going on for years, even to this day." - Punisher fanboy laughable opinion
Wolverine was killed two times in alternate realities, that was one of them, another was with Kitty Pride killing an Hydra-programmed Wolverine losing her hand, it would be nice if in the fight Frank lost his too, but anyway, in that fictional story with the sentinel blasting Wolverine, first of all the skeleton survived, second, he was 75 or very old, third I bet Frank wasn't living at that time on earth, fourth Wolverine is the only X-man to survive in the future which is going against this futuristic story, when the sentinels rule the Earth and other mutants arise, Wolverine is still alive and all the other X-men are death, Wolverine is a Legend for Bishop, no one knows how old Wolverine is, Conan on another futuristic story tried to kill him and decapitate him with a super special Sword... and failed, lost his hand on the process too, Wolverine survived a nuclear blast, and lots of explosions that set him up to flames and so on, and so on, so... No, if you want to kill Wolverine you can't, but there's a lot of information in the internet to tell you how to do it, but it's all speculation or discussion, exactly because it's controversial and no one gets to the point, Wolverine is a very famous character and it always will be, you can't kill him, now that I think of it, they killed every other star Hero and Wolverine is still alive, he's a survivor, guess they will sell millions when they write a really nice story of how to kill him... and then they will sell much more when he resurrects :DDD
So, making it short, you can't kill him with electricity, Frank should have lost his hand or arm in the process, and Wolverine would have hunt Frank instead of otherwise.
The Punisher actually has some drama, but when I say more dramatic I'm not thinking about Frank but Cap, when you're going to kill Cap the drama is not about Frank and you have to be dramatic, but I can see you are a Punisher fanboy all the way you don't accept or respect the other heroes, I like Cap, Wolvie, Thor, Hulk, and guess what? The Punisher, but I respect all of them and I think all of them are different and have a different place in the comics, to kill any of those characters you have to show respect and give some drama on how you are going to do it, of course if you're going to kill Cyclops you don't have to show any respect at all :D, then you talk about Vietnam and as we can see Frank, apart from his family tragedy story, as lots of drama, or Vietnam is no drama at all? I don't think, as bad as Frank is on this story, that he would kill Cap on the back, also Cap can trust other people but wouldn't turn his back on the enemy at that time, but even if he did, he could notice Frank pulling his weapon and escape the shot, Cap is not like Cyclops, like "IS" said "But he is too much naive" that's Cyclops, but even with his back turned he would still escape the betrayal, yes a knife like he does it to daredevil, or something else more tragic, a bomb or grenade. Cap is a Hero, without him there wouldn't been any Frank or Vietnam, and Cap is on the side of Frank regarding Vietnam, Cap is not blind to what happens in USA and the corruption there, he's the opposite, is the American dream, not the reality... yes there as to be drama.
Delete“You haven't been where I've been at all. So who are you to judge?”
I agree completely here, is this not drama 1290ad?
But I understand where you're coming from "I’m tired of Cap getting special treatment." well 1290ad, the reason Cap(41-2013 -> 72 years) has special treatment is because he's been around in the comics almost the double of time of Frank Castle(74-2013 -> 39 years) and he appeared on his own issue instead of Spider-man, in a time the world was at war, inspiring kids and troops, he goes beyond the comics, he survived two big wars(WW2 and Nam), Frank appears later, maybe Frank is inspiring some Iraq veterans right now, who knows, but what you have to know is that special treatment or respect is given to those who have deserved it, of course if you don't like them you don't have the right to do whatever you want with those characters, that's why you have to show respect, or else the writers of Cap, Wolvie, Hulk, and so on, will create very bad stories kicking the ass of Frank, you have to show respect to other Heroes even if you don't understand them, Frank has is own special place, but that's it, like Batman has is own on DC comics(and Batman is the best of DC comics) maybe one day Frank will get there, but with fanboys as you, who don't want drama, with story lines like this, without respecting other Heroes, Frank won't grow to be that special Hero who can match all the other guys, believe me I really like The Punisher, but if he's going just to be a bad guy I won't be there to support him, and we come to the Star Wars comparison, as Luke Skywalker I still believe Frank as some good inside of him, even if it's not good it's some kind of sense of justice, you on the other hand just want Frank to win no matter what, that's for me a laughable opinion of a fanboy...
DeleteRegarding Hulk, Banner already died and Hulk stayed in his form for a long time then he rebuild a Bruce Banner body and everything was the same, as Wolverine, you can't kill Hulk, or Banner, but it's a nice try.
for more information:
http://www.thegeektwins.com/2012/10/8-sure-fire-ways-to-kill-wolverine.html#.UU2VzTf9WIQ
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_the_hulk_die
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk:_The_End
I don't know too much about Hulk, but if his human form is dead he should die. If not he is a bit overated. I mean a direct shot to the brain on his human form should do the trick.
Delete"Everyone knows that Frank works alone so i don't believe that Cap would have fall for this cheap trick. Frank stashing the weapon without Cap's notice, yes. Turning his back on Frank definetely not. Not Believable."
ReplyDeleteBut in this world, Frank has not been fighting for years and getting a reputation for working alone and using whatever trick works. Cap is someone who gives and listens to these big speeches... he's one of many in the Superhero world that's too trusting and gives the benefit of the doubt too many times.
Good point of view, i didn't think that way. But he is too much naive, a guy who has killed tons of his buddies and turns his back on him. That was "killer" literally.
DeleteThis is simply a story problem. Frank always was pummeled by Spider-Man, Captain America, Wolverine, and Daredevil in his exclusive interactions with the marvel universe the Punisher titles. Frank never would have agreed to fight any of them and would have turned down the group supplying his weapons and money. He would have simply dispatched of the Avengers and Mutants first and only, period. Then, maybe those four probably would have hunted Frank down and imprisoned him (or Wolverine would have killed him). This was a Punisher comic stating he killed the marvel universe on the cover but any outcome killing wolverine would not have been accepted. Very funny seeing the mutants blasted by the nuclear weapon. A middle aged Vietnam Veteran vs. 40-70 fantasy characters being believable in reality together. I also like how unapologetic Frank was in this comic. Frank's criticism is he would be in an indestructible jail or killed within 5 years by regular criminals or organizations instead of a 39 year career. No one questions characters with super strength or shooting fire from their eyes for 40-70 years with no characters dying in those fights or rarely. Mutants seem to have their mortality affected by outside forces by aliens/timelines/robots/human policy than by a direct hit. Avengers seem to like aliens and remnants of WWII, it never ends and never gets called. I do believe the respect of Frank's character was displayed here but definitely not killing Spider Man, Captain America, Wolverine, or Daredevil. Frank definitely respects those characters and they would put him in jail. Check out the Rucka's War Zone which Frank did not even have his weapons loaded and co-opted Wolverine without a fight. Frank is a thinker when outmatched against heroes, NOT a fighter against heroes.
ReplyDeletePersonally i like to see the Punisher face the heroes from time to time and to me it make sense but not in a lethal way. Greg Rucka has done a great job in that matter and he respected every hero in my opinion. This was an alternate world and it was fun to read but i wouldn't like to see this "version" of the Punisher in MU616.
DeleteI would also add as well that Frank's interaction be restricted to only Daredevil, Captain America, Wolverine, and Spider Man in that order. These four are my favorites because they also deal with regular people extensively in their lives in addition to aliens/robots/alternate timelines. That is what makes those four excellent as well. They represent an ideal in a real world, something to aspire to and be better. I did like his interaction with Thor and Black Widow in Greg Rucka's War Zone. I also liked how he used the Hulk way back in Marvel knights to take on Wolverine, Daredevil and Spider-Man. That was real funny too. Always leading back to Frank thinks against heroes and respects them. Also, when he does fight them, it is NEVER hand to hand since he knows his limits and would lose. Like a sonar pulse to take out Daredevil or Spidey's own web shooter against Spider-Man or simply losing to Wolverine and Captain America each and every time although each and every time all four characters compromise and work with Frank to save innocent people. Frank would also criticize the fact that there never is a concerted effort to eliminate evil super humans or mutants. What is your purpose if you haven't eliminated Doctor Doom after 50 years or Magneto and Apocalypse after 30 years? If you can't do it, then you are incapable or not serious and getting paid for a position to keep the game going. In some stories, Frank killed the Kingpin as well only Spider-Man and Daredevil wanted Kingpin contained. For what, so they could deal with the after affects on the street level?! Not Frank, go to the source and remove it when necessary. That being said, I hope that the Punisher character is transferred from Frank Castle to someone else or eliminated since I do agree with Frank aging and not staying young like other heroes that have reasons for staying young. Spider bites, soldier serum, heightened senses, and mutant healing factors also have the side effect and excuses their permanent youth. Frank Castle has none, he is human with four great characters to interact against.
DeleteOne of my favourite!
ReplyDelete